Carol:
Welcome back to The People-Forward Leadership podcast. Decades ago, my guest was a high school kid in San Antonio who took a 45-minute bus ride home every afternoon. And today, that kid is running the entire system. Jon Gary Herrera is president and CEO of VIA Metropolitan Transit, the public transportation authority for the San Antonio region.
He's a San Antonio native, and in 2025 became VIA's first Latino president and CEO in the agency's history. Before landing at VIA, Jon spent 18 years leading regional communications at Spectrum, then founded his own advertising agency, and in 2015 served as Rey Feo during Fiesta San Antonio, raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for college scholarships. He joined VIA in 2017 as senior vice president of public engagement where he led the 2020 campaign that secured new voter-approved funding for the agency's Keep SA Moving Plan. When his predecessor retired, the board chose him unanimously from three internal finalists.
And under his leadership, VIA has grown its operator workforce from almost 800 drivers to more than a thousand, the most in its history. It rolled out the largest single service change the agency has ever made, and ridership is up two million trips year over year. And the Better Bus Plan is now on track to finish nearly four years ahead of schedule. Now earlier this month, VIA was ranked first in the nation for customer experience for the third consecutive year and first for financial stability. And Jon calls all of this chapter one.
Jon Gary:
Yes. Yes.
Carol:
So Jon Gary, thank you for being here and welcome to the podcast.
Jon Gary:
It's going to be a really thick book. It's going to be a really thick book for sure. Yeah.
Carol:
That's pretty powerful. Okay, so listen, before we get started, we were having a little conversation about Rey Feo, and I want you to talk a little bit about what that means because it was a little surprising to me.
Jon Gary:
Rey Feo here in San Antonio is definitely, it's a moniker that folks wear with a great deal of pride. And Rey Feo, rey is king and feo is ugly in Spanish to English. So it's King Ugly. But it's really going back to the times of the Spaniard colonial days, even in Spain, where the locals really never saw royalty. They had a king of Spain, but they never really saw him. So what the locals did, they said, "We're going to want to elect one of our own as our leader, a people's king," they call it.
Carol:
Okay.
Jon Gary:
Well, when the real royal king heard about his patrons or his constituents electing a king, he told them, "Hey, there's only one king." And they told the king of Spain, "No, don't worry about it. He's our ugly king." So that's where Rey Feo started.
Carol:
Wow.
Jon Gary:
And it was a moment of really appreciation of having a local leader which was helping them with their problems or the issues that they were having. So fast-forward three, four, 500 years, and here we are in San Antonio celebrating that story, but we do so where Rey Feo, we're raising money for scholarships, for college scholarships. And so that's what a Rey Feo does. You're designated for a year and during that year you're raising college scholarships. So I was able to raise over $500,000 in college scholarships. But now these new Rey Feos, I tell you, they're getting now to a million and getting close to doing more than a million.
Carol:
Wow.
Jon Gary:
So it's an incredible journey that we've been on, but I've been blessed.
Carol:
I love that. What an incredible tradition. Thank you for sharing that.
Jon Gary:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for asking.
Carol:
So Jon Gary, you said that there's a personal transit story that many people in your community share, and yours starts on the McCullough route heading from Central Catholic. And between that bus ride and the CEO's office, there were 18 years in cable communication and ad agency and public engagement and other things that you've done. I'm just curious, I would love for you to just share that story. How did you get from that kid riding that bus to where you are now with the other kind of stops you had in between and how that really shaped your leadership journey?
Jon Gary:
Well, thank you for also not pointing out how many decades it's been since I was that kid. But this brand, let me start with this from the get-go, this brand of VIA, and via is Spanish for go. It's a great name. I think we're probably the most unique name transit system in the United States. I love it, VIA. And it's a beloved brand and it's very approachable. There I was as a 16-year-old needing a mobility option. I wanted to obviously continue going to the school that I wanted to go to, which was not close to my home because it was a private school.
But seeing that mobility option and then taking that mobility option, I have seen now, fast-forward to me being in this corner office as I call it, is every day that I'm out in the community talking to folks, there is somebody who has a very similar story to me, that they needed VIA at a certain part of their life. It was indeed a very meaningful part because it helped them continue down a trajectory that they had chosen for themselves, and it was that mobility support and affordability that really became meaningful.
The other big part of what VIA does here is the connection that we do for park and ride. So while I was indeed taking that service for those moments that I needed for school, I'm always taking that service, and there are many in this community who take that service to special events and concerts and Fiesta. Fiesta, by the way, is also one of the big celebrations that we do here to celebrate our culture.
But it's this brand that has many thousands of stories. So not only is it the active brand that we do today where majority of folks that are taking our service today are doing so to connect to a job. But in that mix of then second and third and fourth, most folks or categories of folks taking our service is going to be for education and it's going to be those kids, it's going to be those college kids, it's the high school kids, it's the junior high kids that are similarly doing it to where I was doing it decades ago. And that is not lost upon me as I sit in this chair.
Carol:
Wow. Wow. And so between the time that you became the CEO, you also had a stint in running your own agency and doing work at Spectrum. What did you learn through those opportunities or those experiences that you brought with you to VIA to really support you and your leadership, and how you're taking the helm and moving forth in your first chapter?
Jon Gary:
Spectrum, it was Time Warner Cable when I was there and then Spectrum and Time Warner merged and became Spectrum as it's known today. A great deal of executive programs and leadership programs that that company was very intentional about to make sure that its executives, that it was promoting through the ranks, and I was an example of that, that they were spending resources and time to prepare us to be the best leaders that we could be for that company.
It was leadership programs, it was leadership schedules of us visiting with each other. It was sharing best practices. It was a very active way that a large company was utilizing to develop its leaders. Much of that is grounded. I could see myself now in this corner seat that I've taken many lessons from those leadership opportunities I was doing with that Fortune 50 company, and bringing it over to VIA and approaching a public sector company with a private sector panache, I guess with lack of a better term.
But it is indeed where I have brought the idea also on the leadership side, some fresh ideas. For example, public transit hasn't typically considered itself to be in competition. Public transit is public transit. But I'm saying no, we are in competition. We do have competition. Uber and Lyft is a competition for us. The car is a competition for us. There is competition for our service, and it is indeed we have to really turn our approach to recognize that competition.
From first establishing that leadership and the approach that we want to take with that and then having that drill down into the organization, into the culture that we're creating here.
Carol:
Oh, I love that. I love that seeing it because you're right, you are competing against rideshares and other things that are out there-
Jon Gary:
Absolutely.
Carol:
... that people have these choices that they may not have had so many in the past.
Jon Gary:
Oh, absolutely.
Carol:
I'm sure it shifts the mindset of your people to think of it that way.
Jon Gary:
It is. While we teasingly say that the rideshare companies, they didn't invent rideshare, that was transit. We invented rideshare. They invented a unique way to do it, and that has taken some customers from us. I mean, we got to just be that blunt with ourselves, but can we now get those customers back? Can we look at improving ourselves in such a way that we can be competitive with our competition? And that is a new way of thinking of how that I think I have brought to this position and to this agency and generally to the industry. That we are in competition and what competition does is it really refines your offering and support that you're giving the customer. There's nothing wrong with competition because it just makes you better. So I brought that kind of angle to this as well.
Carol:
I think that's fantastic. One of the things that I often talk about in the People-Forward Leadership framework, the first one is this leader awareness. And it really is about this self-reflective practice of what am I learning externally that's helping me to grow and iterate my own learning and understanding of leadership and how I lead people and what I bring to the table. I love that loop that you brought this kind of private sector panache, as you call it, in thinking about it. I think just it brings innovation and creativity and new ways to think about things that keeps people on their toes. I'm sure that's contributed to a lot of what you've been able to successfully do in your leadership.
Jon Gary:
No, and there are examples of this that we're quite proud of achieving. For example, we now as an industry are measuring customer satisfaction. We hadn't really done that before. In VIA's case, we are tops in the country in customer satisfaction because we are very focused on sharpening our skills and our support for our customers. And that's a really meaningful recipe, ingredient for a really successful recipe, which plays out into, as we talked about earlier, you don't gain two to two million plus ridership trips year over year if folks are unhappy with their interaction with your employees, with your interaction with your system, with your interaction with the bus itself.
We have to be laser focused on putting ourselves in the customer's shoes. That's what competition does. It puts a lot of empathy into the company and that empathy, you're putting yourself into the customer's shoes and you're understanding their journey and you're trying to make it as best as you can. The good news is there's no downside to that. If you have that kind of focus on your rider, on your customer, there's no downside to it. It only has upside for an agency. So that is something that I'm very proud to have brought that kind of idea and bringing that to the entire culture here, and they've embraced it. I mean, I've been very proud of what we've accomplished in a short period of time.
Carol:
That's incredible. In February, I know of this year too, the mayor and several council members publicly pushed via the pilot free-fare service, and your workforce had strong opinions about it, and there were several things that were surrounding that, and you told the board the recommendation was to stay the course on frequency, reliability, and long-term stability, and the vote was unanimous for it. So I would love for you to share a little bit more about that process and that pilot and how when you're doing something like that is such a high stakes that you're able to stay grounded in your values as a leader. You know, when you're leading a team through something like that where people may have some opinions about that.
Jon Gary:
I think it's a great example of something that we went through in February. It was unexpected, obviously. And then when you have elected officials and the mayor pitching you an idea that they're really interested in you, your agency and the company executing, you immediately recognize the immensity of the moment. I thought what was important for me is to stay the course, but also project a confidence in that because I recognize I was being looked at not only by our board members, but also by our employees.
The way I turned that into a strength, in my opinion, is that I am glad that folks are looking to help us improve ourselves. Now, they have ideas on how to do that, and sometimes we may not agree with those ideas, but collectively what we heard from City Hall is, "How can we better you? How can we help you become better?" And that is better than being ignored. I've grown up. I mean, part of my leadership influence I think I've had over the years too, I've played various sports and coaches have had a big influence on my leadership style. I always remember a coach saying, "Don't worry about a coach that's getting after you about being better. Worry about a coach that doesn't get after you and they've given up on you." That's worse. If they've given up on you, you're in a worse place than if they're here to try to make you better.
But that was also a moment for us to coalesce around our plan. And our plan to improve our service did not call for free-fare. Our board elected to stay on our plan that would require fares, which again, we still have some of the most affordable fares in the United States, and it wasn't something our customers are asking for, and it wasn't something that was necessarily generated out of an absolute need in this community. But our board unanimously said, "No, let's stay the course and let's continue to make the improvements that we're doing." Here we are six months later, seven months later, and we've added two million more ridership trips to our system. So that's proof that this plan is working, and that is something that our board now feels really good about making that decision because it's indeed something that was a important moment for them.
Carol:
Yeah. I think what you shared there is so powerful because how we see things, the stories that we create about what's happening around us, the narratives that inform our decisions or our choices or how we respond to certain things could be so powerful. I love that you saw that as someone looking at you to say, "This is a growth opportunity," that this is opportunity-
Jon Gary:
It's sometimes hard.
Carol:
It's sometimes hard.
Jon Gary:
It's sometimes hard to do that, but yeah.
Carol:
But the way that you looked at it shifted how you responded to it and how you led your team, and I think that is so powerful because how we look at things could shift entirely how we show up in that space or how we respond to it, or the success that we have with it. And because you took it from that perspective, from your coach training that they're looking at you because they think you can do it. They see the potential, they want the growth, and to see it from that perspective I think is really powerful.
Jon Gary:
Absolutely. And it's important also, it's self-awareness that comes into play for leadership as well. I'm a big believer too in the mantra about don't make decisions while you're emotional, while you have passion, because that's the wrong time to make a decision. Give yourself 24 hours if you can. Give yourself 10 hours. Give yourself some buffer of hours that you have time to really reflect on it as well. And that becomes an important moment for you as a leader that then you can see the long game on this instead of the short-term reaction. And that comes into play more often than not in this seat that I've seen.
But at the same time, you have to make decisions as well, and that's what this agency was looking for in leadership because the employees were really worried about heading down this path for free-fare because they've had a bad experience with it in the past. Because during COVID, we had to go free-fare. Well, we chose to go free-fare. I don't want to say we had to. We chose to go free-fare, but within three to four weeks, our customers were begging us to bring fare back, and that was because their experiences were now being ruined by others that were taking the service that were not taking it for transportation purposes. They were taking it for housing purposes, living on the bus, and ruining their customer experience.
And so they were the ones, it was our core customers that are saying, "Please bring back the fare." Because it's a really important safety moment. It's a really important moment for them to get to A to B. And we did, and we brought back the fare, and since then we have rarely do a free-fare moment that's more than a day. Like we honor Rosa Parks with a free-fare day, but we don't do weekly moments of free-fare anymore.
Carol:
Yeah. No, I appreciate that. I think emotional regulation is a powerful tool in the leader's toolkit to not make decisions-
Jon Gary:
It's hard. It's hard because you really want to say what you really are thinking at that time, but it's probably better that you don't sometimes.
Carol:
Yeah, for sure. For sure. So now that you're 20 months into the top job, you're following a CEO who had the seat for 13 years and who described what you bring as a balance of heart and mind. And so I'm curious about how you, across all of the functions and personalities and priorities, do you build trust across those functions? I mean, obviously the proof is in the pudding in terms of the success that you've had, but I'm just curious from your own philosophical stance, how do you build trust across all of these constituencies so that we're moving in the right direction?
Jon Gary:
What I was very intentional about bringing to this position, and then even to my direct report team, which I call the senior management team, was transparency. And what I mean by that is they're going to know everything that I know when we have to make decisions. We bring in information, we bring in data, we bring in people to come and talk to us when we have big decisions to make. And I want them to hear exactly what I'm hearing, because I don't profess that I am just smarter at picking the right decision. I really believe in group think is a stronger position to be in.
But I think back to your original point there was, but that's what creates the trust within my circle that I'm not hearing only one voice in the room and then going out and making the decision. It is a collective voice that we do as a group. So we even now have... That is the one meeting that I will say has been the most consistent meeting that I've kept as a CEO is the weekly meetings I have with my senior team. I think we've only missed one or two in the 20 or so months, and that was maybe because I was traveling. But we've been very consistent about it. We have very robust agendas and discussions in those meetings, but it's very purposeful from a leadership standpoint to say, "I want you to know what I know, and then let's make a collective decision."
Plus you also get buy-in, even if it's not the decision they would've made, but they understand why I made the decision or why we went a different direction, and I think that's a real meaningful way to build trust.
Carol:
Yeah, that has been a theme that I've heard in some conversations that I've had, that the success, this openness, this transparency, this honesty, I'll let you know what I know, and bringing people along and hearing their voice. I think sometimes, particularly new leaders, I think, sometimes are afraid to get that collective voice from their people because there's a fear that I may not have all the answers, or I may not be able to give you everything that you want. So if I don't know, I'm okay.
And so I love that you have this platform, this forum where you're not only hearing from your people, gathering the expertise and intelligence around you, but you're also sharing, so it was this give and take that builds that trust and that community together.
Jon Gary:
It's an important moment, and we've tried to even take that now to the next level with the VPs and directors and what we call our executive management team. We meet with them once a month, and we, again, be as transparent as we can about information that's going to help us guide our decisions. So everybody hears that and everybody has an understanding of where we're heading, and it's a collective approach.
Carol:
Yeah. I have to ask, as an old union attorney around labor relations, because at the foundation of People-Forward Leadership is this putting people at the center. And transit leaders everywhere are navigating labor relations. San Antonio's had his fair share of moments at the table. But in February, your union president told your board it was a rare occasion where labor and management were 100% on the same page.
Jon Gary:
Yes.
Carol:
I mean, wow, okay, just that is rarely heard. So what did it take for you to get there, and what would you tell a leader who is sitting across from a union right now in a relationship that feels adversarial, that there's hope that you can get to this place?
Jon Gary:
I definitely have brought a different approach to our union here in terms of how I'm interacting with them and how leadership interacts with them. First and foremost, recognize that they're in it for the same reason that we're in it. We're in it for the success of this agency because they cannot be successful as a union if this agency's not successful. I'm glad that we have leadership here that really recognizes that. So then it becomes a collective approach on how we can become successful. But the same approach that I have with my senior team is the same approach I've had with the union is I'm going to be transparent. I'm going to bring what I know to them and they're going to bring what they know to me and we're going to have a conversation about it.
But I am not worried about topics that they bring to me, and now they feel really comfortable about bringing whatever's on the top of their mind to me and seeing what is possible and what's not possible. I think it's, again, establishing that recognition of we're in this together. They're as much interested in delivering success to this agency as we are, so they sound like a partner, not an adversary. Now, will we have disagreements? Sure. We'll have disagreements in terms of how we'll approach certain rules and so forth. I get that part, but so do they. They know that they have a job to do as well when it comes to, let's say, salary, wages and so forth, and we have a job to do on our side to make sure that we keep the lights on and we can afford everything.
But establishing that upfront I think was a very meaningful moment with the union and with union leadership here. And then even during that time that he made that comment to the paper, it was indeed a moment when we were about to make decisions publicly about the request from City Hall about fares. I always made sure to go talk to the union president before he read about it or before he heard about it in the media. Because I wanted him to feel like he was inside the loop, as I call it, not outside the loop. Those are those moments I believe that will come back and continue to build a relationship.
Carol:
Yeah, that's the partnership you talked about, and I love that we're in this together. That is such a great foundation, and it's so true, but it's not quite the way it's always perceived or cast. So I love that just foundational simplicity that we're in it together.
Jon Gary:
Oh, absolutely.
Carol:
And if you start from there, you can build everything from there.
Jon Gary:
I see it in practice from a very pragmatic standpoint every day that when our bus operators have a question about, let's say, their healthcare account that they may have as an employee, what I see them do, they go to their union folks and talk to them about it. They don't go to our HR. And HR will give them the answer, but they've developed a relationship with the union to give them guidance in terms of what's their best options on our various offerings that we have for healthcare. To me, that's an example of, well, they're stewards of this company. They deliver messaging for our company that let's make sure they have the information and they're accurate and very much have the materials that they need in order to fulfill their job.
I know some other leaders may get bothered by, "Well, I don't want them going to the union for answers. They need to go to our HR department." I'm not bothered by that because if you give the union the tools to help you deliver your message and it's the same message, it doesn't matter who's delivering it. As long as at the end of the day, that employee's getting their information that they need.
Carol:
Yeah. Wow. Wow. So I want to take it to the other side of the perspective because you and your board chair both stepped into your roles in January.
Jon Gary:
At the same time.
Carol:
Yes, exactly. And so you built that relationship from scratch at the same time that you were building your leadership team. And most of what gets written about boards is about governance and compliance and things of that nature, but you were able to really establish something different coming in at the same time. So how do you lead a board the same way you lead your people? And what does trust with the board actually look like when hard votes are coming in?
Jon Gary:
It's a big recognition that our board are volunteers. They do not spend 40 hours a week in these walls and understanding what we understand. So it becomes that much more important for us to keep that in mind as we're explaining things and as we're approaching them on big decisions, is to make sure that we start from the ground up and we don't assume that they know as much as we think we know about the same topic.
I think that approach is very much appreciated. I'll say from the perspective of the relationship with our chair, I teasingly call ourselves as the one-two punch. We're really good at playing off each other when it comes to... We were just in front of the Express News editorial board about three weeks ago, and we've gotten into a really good cadence with each other of things that we'll say that compliment a bunch of what we're both doing. But it's ultimately we're all aligned into the same area.
And I will thank them as often as I can, and I do this from the dais when we have public meetings, because we're also thankful that we have a board that is aligned and that believes in staff. Because too many times I've seen in this industry that the agency will start getting themselves in trouble if the board is not aligned and vice versa if staff's not aligned with the board. So we're in a very good position with our board and we thank them for that, but at the same time, we don't consider that as something that is a given. We have to work on that and we have to give them information.
It's much about that transparency that I've been having as a theme here is we want them to know what we know and we want them to understand why we're recommending a certain way. But we also don't take it personally if they're recommending to go another way because we got to empathize. We got to put ourselves in their shoes. Sometimes they got to make decisions that would be different than we would've made, but if it's still all aligned with the good of the cause, then we're good with that.
Carol:
Yeah, yeah. Now you rose internally, right?
Jon Gary:
Yes.
Carol:
So you now are leading your peers, which could be challenging, particularly again for new leaders who are trying to find their voice and their place. You've been in leadership for a while, but finding that balance between going from peer to leading your peers could be challenging for some people. How did you make that transition and how are you building, continuing to build that culture? I know you talked about transparency and trust and the things that you've been doing, the partnership that you created. But how did that transition work and how are you maintaining that?
Jon Gary:
I think a big part of it too, in addition to some of the examples that I've provided, is also empowering them to make their decisions. They're CEOs and they are their own CEO of their department and they should feel that way. I feel like, okay, I'm just kind of that board chair and I'm at the governance side. I'm going to make sure you're aligned and that we're all moving in the same direction, but I don't want to be in the decision making business in your department. And that's a very meaningful trust that I've put into them and it empowers them to make the decisions and have a meaningful leadership moment for themselves.
Because I need them to all be successful. Again, to the team dynamic, we're going to be stronger together, not individually. And that's something that is an absolute must when it comes to the team dynamics that we have here. They're a very great deal of expertise and professions and backgrounds and diverse and so forth. They know more than I do. I recognize it on a bunch of topics. So let's let them lead their teams and let's let them do that. And I think that's a real meaningful way to establish that two-way trust that we have with each other.
Carol:
Yeah. You have some great nuggets and phrasing that you share about your leadership, and I love how you let them be the CEO of their parts of the organization and let them run it without stepping on toes. That's an interesting balance for some leaders who, this kind of when do I come in? When do I step out? How do I hold that balance where they're leading and I really am just overseeing and not the decision-making for the group, but still hold the responsibility for what happens in their groups. And I know some leaders struggle with how much do they get in and how much do they let go?
And how do you make that determination? Because all your leaders aren't the same. Some of them may need a little bit more of your input or I don't want to call it handholding, but maybe a little bit more input than the other. So how do you balance that? How are you knowing when to do that? How are you building and connecting with your leaders in a way to understand who needs what and who doesn't and how to make sure they're getting the best of you to support them to be the best of themselves?
Jon Gary:
It starts with accountability for sure. And that accountability should be based upon an agreed upon delivery or outcome that you're looking for. What we have done, and this started with, again, my board chair and myself is that one-two punch. This position had not had a scorecard or goal grouping before I got here. Now we have a scorecard and we had deliverables for success that we promised our board that we would run towards. Well, I've taken that into my direct reports to say, "Guess what? If this is my goals, guess what your goals are?" And so that starts permeating into the different departments that we have.
And then it's that accountability part. When you know you start lagging in some of the goal areas, you then start looking deeper into that organization or even to the leader to say, how can I help? Is it a resource issue? Is it a comprehension issue? Or whatever the case might be, you go in there and you engage with that. Because sometimes they definitely need some help or sometimes they need cross-departmental help. That's usually a big... I've noticed in this role, it is indeed a lot about cross-departmental solutions that you have to facilitate out of this position in order to deliver some of the big things that we have on the scorecard.
So I think all of that together, that accountability, and then recognizing when is that right opportunity to offer insight and help and ideas. They'll always hear my opinion and my ideas for sure, but I don't take it personally if they don't use them either because I'm more interested in the outcome, and how we get to that outcome is what's really important is the outcome, not how we got there, I should say.
Carol:
Yeah. Well, you mentioned that earlier, and it sounds like this comes into play where you talked about people and data, right? So in addition to accountability and transparency, it sounds like part of that is that you look at what is the data telling you, and if it's giving you some indicators that you need to lean in here, then that makes sense. And so I love the idea of having your scorecard, passing that down so that you have some tangibles to be able to have some indicators where it's time to do something different, and then just exploring what those inputs need to be in order to shift those numbers.
Jon Gary:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Now that is an example of something that I brought from the private sector. That is an example of what we did at Time Warner where the goals and objectives of the board of directors at that moment were permeated through the entire organization. Even the front line folks that were installing and doing service calls, they knew their role in these goals and objectives. We're going to get there. I'm taking small steps on that, but next year, for example, I want to now introduce KPIs, key performance indicators for each department. So they all start recognizing how they tie in to the overall goals and scorecard.Because it then creates this culture of accountability, but not doing it in such a way it's a gotcha culture. It is more of a culture of, hey, we want to achieve this because it's good for all of us.
Carol:
Yeah. And my standpoint is that I believe it shows people where what they do contributes to the bigger picture.
Jon Gary:
Absolutely.
Carol:
Because people always want to feel like they're contributing and what they're doing has value, not just in this one area, but it has a greater impact in everything. And so when you link that through those KPIs, I think that also gives people more encouragement and excitement about their contribution to the work.
Jon Gary:
A hundred percent. I was talking to a payroll administrator and she was asking me, "Well, you know, no, I'm just producing and processing payroll." Nope, that's not all you're doing. You are assuring that our financial resources are being spent in a very effective way that supports the labor who is delivering our service on the street. There's your connection. It's not just I'm processing paper. No, there's a meaning behind it.
Carol:
Yeah, I love that. So I'm curious about AI. I mean, it's a touchy subject right now. And VIA has been ranked first in the country for customer experience as we talked about three years running and your board briefed City Council this year on technology and safety upgrades across the system. And customer experience in transit is increasingly shaped by data and apps and real-time information and now AI, you know how people are using it to track things of that nature.
So as AI has been reshaping how teams are working and how transit is utilizing data to support the work that they're doing, how are you keeping people, not just technology, at the center of those decisions?
Jon Gary:
It is recognizing starting with the benefit for the consumer, the benefit or for the employee, how do we plug in these smart systems that will improve a process or improve an experience and for employees and customers together? Because what I've seen so far too with AI, and I know I'm probably only scratching the surface of it, is that it's still garbage in, garbage out as well, right? It's not going to correct things that are wrong. It's going to just spit it out as here's the data you put in, so I'm going to spit out what the data... If that data wasn't accurate in the first place, then you have a problem.
But it is indeed very impressive in terms of what it can do and the capabilities of what we could get complimented for in our ability to deliver service. And in particular also, what are some of the things that we could never really afford looking at that now AI might be able to look at for us? Is there more efficiencies that we can... In the old days, you'd have to go pay millions of dollars to consultants to come in and dive into your process and systems and data and background. And now you could do so for a monthly fee to one of these AI companies, which becomes a much more affordable way of approaching those type of solutions.
But we haven't really organized our approach to it yet. We are currently discussing that, even how much we will let it under the hood because we have to be very careful about that. But how do we, again, we got to have a goal for it in the very first place. If it's not going to improve our system, it's not going to improve our customer experience, then we don't really need it. But I can see the upside of AI if it's used correctly.
Carol:
Yeah, I think that's fantastic. One of the things when I talk to organizations around AI, this conversation that you're talking about right now, this framing, do we need it? How do we use it? What are our standing values that we're not going to compromise because of it? I mean, those are such important conversations. Most people go right into governance and structure and things of that nature, which are important for sure in terms of using it.
Jon Gary:
Sure, sure.
Carol:
But boy, that first conversation about who are we going to be with it and do we need it? And how do we want to use it and where are we going to allow it to step in and when do we always want to have a human involved in it? Just all of those conversations, I think you just sharing that right now, you're just in those conversation stages, I think are such important conversations to have with your people. And just even as you look at your vision and goals for where you want to go within VIA as well.
Jon Gary:
And that's where we're going to start with the goals and objectives first and then see how AI helps us. There are some examples I can give you that we are having current conversations with some very smart AI people. If you can imagine that one of our processes that's really important to us is the cleanliness of our stations and our shelters. We want to keep those clean, including making sure those trash cans, when they get filled, that they're empty.
Well, we currently don't have a way to actively monitor that. Okay, our bus driver will drive by there, and if the bus driver makes a note, mental note to themselves to come back when they're back in the yard six hours later to say, "Oh yeah, there was a shelter," it's not consistent. Now, what is on the bus that visit... So first of all, every bus that we have visits every shelter and every stop in our system once a day, but what's on that bus right outside on the external part of the bus are cameras. And so the cameras are recording and video recording when we're getting up to that stop, and it's AI that can now start identifying-
I might be...
Jon Gary:
I mean, the AI moments that we have in terms of really taking a bunch of data, and when you think about the cameras that are on our vehicles, our vehicles are visiting our shelters at least once a day, and those cameras can recognize they're recording and the visuals will show whether that shelter needs upkeep, whether it needs to be power washed, whether the trash is empty. Well, AI can come in and instantaneously recognize that data as an opportunity that we could then dispatch immediately to say, "Shelter number 72 on the east side of town, AI is telling us based on its view of current video is needing attention."
And so that's an example of where the capacity of AI can improve our system. Because now we're being more efficient of deploying assets to go and improve that shelter. Secondly, the cleaner we can get that shelter in better shape that it can be, that's better for our customers. So now that's a great use of AI. Because right now we have no way of figuring out how to do that, and AI can take that massive amount of data and immediately break it down and look at it and then immediately spit out a direction for us. That's an example of really meaningful improvement that I could see AI in the future doing for us.
Carol:
Yeah, that's still aligned with your values of customer experience and making sure that that's always at the maximum level.
Jon Gary:
Right. Then we become more efficient. We're deploying our assets where they're needed instead of going and re-cleaning a shelter that is already clean just because it happened to be on a list of somebody to go out and do. So it's an opportunity for us.
Carol:
Yeah. So my last question here is, you've described two million additional trips and a top national ranking as chapter one. And you've set a goal of 50 million annual trips within about seven years, and getting there will take a different kind of leadership than got you here. As the saying goes, "What got you here won't get you there."
Jon Gary:
Right, right.
Carol:
So I'm curious, as you think further into chapters two and three, the big book that you're writing, what advice would you not only give yourself, but would give to other leaders in terms of either a mindset shift or a practice? Or just something to change to be more people forward in order to get to those goals and achieve those outcomes?
Jon Gary:
Yeah, and I've seen this for sure in this industry, and I definitely preach it as often as I can, is this term that I call that you don't always have to punt on fourth down. And what I mean by that is as leaders, we learn from other leaders, and we see what other leaders are doing. And when you break that into a vernacular that I was just using is when you look at sports, when you look at the NFL, you look at college football, even high school football, all those leaders have learned that you punt on fourth down. That's your best chance is to punt on fourth down.
But statistically, you have a better chance to win if you didn't punt on a fourth down. But leaders aren't willing to take that chance. They do not want to be criticized for not punting on fourth down and that you're not successful, you turn the ball over and the other team goes and scores. So that's this moment that I say we got to all be willing not to punt on fourth down when it's necessary. And be willing also to take the criticism if it doesn't work. But if we're just going to self-perpetuate the same decisions that leaders have had in this industry, we'll be back at the same position as we were when we took over.
So I'm trying to bring that fresh perspective, go out on a limb, take the risk. But again, it's going to be a risk that is well thought through. And again, it's those moments that you recognize when you do have an opportunity not to punt the ball on fourth down, but you have that moment of recognizing, but what if I did get that first down and now I can get a touchdown? So you got to look at the upside as much as what the downside is. But again, collectively what leaders do, and you see it currently in the NFL and elsewhere, is nobody wants to be that outlier, that leader. They all want to conform because that's the way that you survive as a leader in that moment.
Put this all in a bow here. There is actually a 60-Minute story years ago that they did a story about a high school team, I'm going to say in Tennessee, and that high school team, they don't punt on fourth down. When they kickoff, they do an onsite kick every single time, so they don't kick it away. There was a third thing that they did. But anyways, definitely they didn't punt and they did an onsite kick every time they had. Well, they had won five of the last six state championships with that approach that they have done, and it was a coach that is a big believer in that too.
But he also admitted, "I'll tell you, when I don't get that first down on fourth down, I hear about it from the fans and they criticize me." So you got to be willing to take the criticism. I think that's the next level of leadership we're adding to this moment, is you got to have some thick skin and know it's not personal, but believe in what you're doing, and that's what you have at the end of the day.
Carol:
Yeah. Wow. That is a perfect way to end this podcast. I love that. You cannot be afraid. I love it.
Jon Gary:
That's right. Quit punting on fourth down. That's right.
Carol:
Yes. Quit punting on fourth down. That is so amazing. Jon Gary, thank you so much for joining me.
Jon Gary:
Happy to do it. I'll tell you, your questions were so well positioned that it was really easy to answer, so I appreciate that.
Carol:
Oh, good. Thank you. Thank you. And what you have done for VIA has just been incredible, and I cannot wait to read chapters two, three, and four of what's coming.
Jon Gary:
Yes. Well, let's get together a year and a half from now and let's see where we are.
Carol:
Yeah, I would love that. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jon Gary:
Absolutely.
Carol:
Well, thank you again for showing up. And listen, to everyone listening, if this conversation gave you something to take back to your own team, share it with your leader and whoever needs to hear it. You can learn more about our work at thriveaxisgroup.com, and you can reach out to us anytime at hello@thriveaxisgroup.com to learn more about our People-Forward Leadership framework and how we use that to elevate leaders at every level. Until next time, keep leading people forward, and I'll see you soon.
