Carol:
Hello, hello, and welcome back to the People Forward Leadership Podcast. I am so excited about today's conversation because my guest leads operations at one of the most iconic transit systems in the country, and during one of the most consequential years in its history.
Derik Calhoun is the chief transportation officer for BART, the Bay Area Rapid Transit System, where he manages and oversees all operations and activities of the transportation department, including the movement and control of revenue rail vehicles within the operations control center.
Before joining BART in February of 2025, Derik was chief operating officer at the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority, where he managed a budget of $350 million, and provided executive level oversight for VTA's bus and light rail operations, maintenance, accessible services, and facilities, and helped to reinforce VTA's high road workforce development partnership with ATU.
Before that, he spent six and a half years as director of transportation at AC Transit, where he opened the new Tempo Bus Rapid Transit line along Oakland's international corridor during the pandemic, opened a new operations control center, and helped open and manage the Salesforce Transit Center.
And before his public sector career, Derik spent more than 20 years in the private sector as a general manager and regional vice president, overseeing more than a hundred contracts and sharing union negotiations with ATU, Teamsters, IBEW, SEIU, and AFSCME. I mean, hello. That's a mic drop introduction in and of itself. This is why I'm excited that we have Mr. Calhoun on this podcast today. So Derik, welcome to the show.
Derik:
Thank you for having me. I truly, truly, truly appreciate it. Thank you.
Carol:
Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. So I want to start with where you started because there's something poetic to me about your path. You were born and raised in Richmond, California, and today every train that rolls into Richmond Station, the end of the line in the neighborhood where you grew up moves under your watch.
Derik:
Crazy.
Carol:
Wow. That's just poetic to me. And so I just had to say that. But what does that mean for you, to now be responsible for the movement of every train in that system? And when did you know transportation was going to be your life's work?
Derik:
Man, that... Well, again, thank you so much for having me come on today. It is kind of like you just said, it's kind of really poetic. I grew up on the transit system. Growing up in Richmond, California, and if you know a lot about Richmond, California, a lot of violence, other things that took place, but really established my pathway for the direction and the foundation that I have currently today.
But I grew up riding AC Transit. I actually remember, pieces that I remember, of when BART was being built.
Carol:
Wow.
Derik:
Tells you how old I am. Or when it first started. So riding those systems, I just never thought that I would be a part of either one of the systems. And that wasn't my thought when I was growing up. I wanted to be an NFL player, and all these other different aspirations, even when I was in college thinking about being a chiropractor and all these different things.
But transportation kind of fell into my lap when I started my career with FedEx and moving up the ladder there as well too. But it's just so... I don't even know how to really put it. I get kind of emotional when I think about the fact that where I grew up is where I'm growing up. If that makes sense.
Carol:
I love that. Yeah. Yeah.
Derik:
So I'm lucky and I'm blessed at the same time.
Carol:
Yeah. And I think that is so. I love what you shared because I believe that, and you said this, a lot of the things that shape people's leadership and how they show up and how they're committed to the work that they do is shaped by our past. And that's why I love to ask the question around that through line,
And everything that you've done. And you spent more than 20 years in the private sector before crossing into public transfer, transit rather, and now lead at three of Bay Area's major agencies. So what did the private sector teach you that public agencies could probably learn a little bit from, and vice versa? What did public sector or public service teach you about what the private sector just never really could?
Derik:
That's a great question. I think with the private sector, it really focused around managing contracts. And with managing those contracts, really managing relationships, and not just managing the relationships, and if you have a three-year contract with two other terms along with that, managing the contract a hundred percent of the way through, and investing with the client and making sure that the client begins to trust you and everything else.
And then, also really understanding all the way down to the penny equivalent. You were responsible for making sure, one, that you were profitable, but also making sure that you read that contract from A to Z, and to make sure that you were adhering to that contract.
And then, sit there and imagine managing close to 200-something contracts, and making sure that the people are executing on all those contracts. So the private sector really taught me expediency. It taught me to read things deeply. It also taught me to learn how to manage, but also work with unions relatively closely.
And it really truly helped me with building relationships, and making sure that people come first before anything else. If you don't have your people, it means absolutely nothing. So the way you do things from an integrity standpoint, you got to understand that people are looking at you so you do the same thing that people, when they see you, you're doing the same exact thing.
And on the public side, the public side, to me, there's a difference because there's speed, and there's slow, methodical patience. And I think with the public sector, you have to have patience. Now you're on the side of the contractor, and some related experiences that I had that you actually now had to manage that private sector contract, and to make sure that they were executing a contract, and then different things like that.
Carol:
Yeah.
Derik:
And also too, managing a budget. But I thought the public sector was a little bit slower than the private sector. And you have a vast amount of responsibilities to a board of directors, all the way up to the general manager, and making sure that everything that you're living and walking every single day is a reflection of what the agency's vision and goals are really all about.
And I'm not saying that wasn't the same thing on the private side, but it's just a little bit different. A lot more politics and everything involved, as well, on the public side.
But I love both. I think both was really good. The one thing that I was a little challenged with was the fact that you had this five-year term, basically, to make sure that you please that client. And if you didn't please that client, how can you do these things to save your contract? So, that was a little tougher than probably with how you deal with things in the public side.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah, I hear that. So I'm hearing the difference is pace, a little bit more hands in the pot that you're dealing with, and people and contingencies. But what sounds like a through line is the relationship piece.
Derik:
Right, that's key.
Carol:
Is the connection. Yeah. And that keeping that at the forefront of what you're doing, because you just have maybe more relationships you're working with and different approaches that you're taking in those relationships, but that the private sector gave you a good platform of understanding how relationships matter when you're doing this kind of work. Yeah.
Derik:
Yes. Yes, definitely.
Carol:
Yeah. On this podcast, we talk a lot about leader awareness, as I mentioned. And for me, I call that mirror work. It's how you look in the mirror and do that own kind of self-reflective work. Because leadership, for me always happens on the inside.
And I know you were a sociology major, and studied people in systems, long before you ran a system. So I'm curious, when bringing in the conversation we had about-
Derik:
Sorry, I turned. Sorry.
Carol:
That's okay. Bringing the conversation we just had into this, how has studying people shaped the way that you lead? And what did you learn about yourself in that process, as a leader?
Derik:
Oh my goodness. So it's funny that you say that. So I just had an all-hands meeting yesterday, and what I left them with yesterday was, can you actually, when you walk through the door at your home, or before you walk through the door at your facility, take that mirror and turn it around and look at yourself. Every single day, every single day when I leave this office and other offices that I've left before, I turn that mirror around and I ask myself, how could I have been better today? What could I have done better today? What are these things that I'm missing in order for me to be the best?
And I also tell people too, look, I actually take bad management that I had in the past, and I still apply it today. And that may sound crazy, but I do because there are things that I don't want to do that I saw other people do.
So I always make sure that I reflect back, and I remember how I felt. And I think really at the end of the day, you want to make sure that people are feeling like they're important, they're feeling like they're heard, and they also feel like they're being listened to.
And I think with me, again, like I said, I'm always turning that mirror around, and looking at myself to see what I can do better. I never think that I'm better than the next person. And I always tell people, even in a meeting today, I told everyone, "Look, I work for you. You don't work for me. And I've got to find ways to be able to make sure you have the tools that you need to be successful."
And I'll go to the outer limits to make sure that happens, even if it's standing on tables to make sure that the people get what they need to succeed in their everyday life. Hope I answered that question. Did I miss any part of that?
Carol:
No, that was awesome. I mean, and so many nuggets. I love the looking at the mirror to ask about, what could I have done better today? Looking in the mirror and asking that question. It's one of the things I often say with leaders is at the end, have those self-reflective moments of what went well, what didn't? What would I do better? What would I change and improve? And I love that.
But boy, I love what you said about telling your people, "I work for you." And that is something that I think a lot of leaders struggle with. People are so title-focused that they forget that it's not about now I'm up here, now I laud over you. But really as a leader, our roles are to develop and help and bring up people behind us. And I love what you said about telling your people, "Listen, I work for you," and making sure they have the resources to be successful.
Where did that come from? How did you know to do that? Was that just embedded?
Derik:
It was kind of embedded, but I always wanted to make sure that, everybody says, I want to be the smartest person in the room. I don't always want to be the smartest person in the room. I want to have people around me that are smarter, that think outside the box, probably even more than I do, and have that intellect to think about things that they wouldn't normally think about. And I'm always open to stuff like that.
And at the end of the day, I really want to be able, my legacy, I want to be able to build a tree. And that tree, I want to have branches on that tree, from people that were able to learn from me. And I could tell you right now throughout my career, have people that are CEOs, COOs, regional vice presidents, general managers, all these different things that have worked with me.
And like I said, people work for me. I don't work for them. I mean, I work for them. They don't work for me. And that's what I mean by those people that have been able to go off of that branch and continue to grow.
And I always believe that you should always work on building your bench. You should always make sure that your bench strength is the strongest piece of what you do, because now people become invested. Now they actually see the light at the end of the tunnel. They understand the vision, and they want to be able to be in that position.
And I'm happy to say that the last two positions that I left all came from my team. So as a COO, I have the person that's the COO of VTA actually worked for me and worked with me. And then, the other director over at AC Transit actually worked with me as well too. So, everybody should kind of center around the fact that you want people to be able to grow, and not hinder people's growth by thinking that you're better than them.
Carol:
Yeah. I love that tree analogy. And that's exactly, you have evidence of those branches, from places that you left and really are building that legacy. That's a powerful analogy. I love that.
I'm curious, when you stepped into BART in 2025, a new system, a new team, and an immediately enormous amount of probably pressure and responsibility. When you walked into that big role, what was your first 90 days about?
Derik:
Oh my gosh.
Carol:
What were you watching for? What did you deliberately not want to touch or touch, as you're stepping into this new iteration of your work?
Derik:
Man, I really love this podcast, because you're right up my alleyway. So before I got to BART, I always, from a distance, always wanted to work for BART from a distance. And I had an opportunity to be able to come in. And when I was debating on whether or not I was going to leave VTA to come to BART, I actually rode the entire system. And I rode the system. And with riding the system, they have 50 stations, just so you know, and they cover a whole bunch of miles, but I did it in increments.
And what I did is, I would get off the train and I would go down and I'd actually go down and talk to the station agents, and just introduce myself. And they're like, "Oh, do you work for BART?"
And I'm like, "No, I work for VTA, but I just wanted to check in with you, see how things are going. How do you like working for BART?"
And I mean, it was probably day two when I did it, people really started to open up. So, I actually had an idea of what I was walking into, and some of the things that I needed to do in order to start getting things going in the right direction.
One thing that I did start, when I was at VTA, was a mantra called CLIMB. And CLIMB is an acronym that I got from Boise State. Boise State was recruiting my son. And when they were recruiting him, we went in the room and it was just us and the coach, and they had CLIMB going across the screen. It was totally different than the acronym and the way that I use it today, but I liked what they were trying to put out there to recruit them to come.
And so I said, how can I apply this to transit and my job? So C stands for communication, L stands for leadership, the I stands for integrity, the M stands for motivation, and the B stands for building trust.
So, when I was looking within those days, I took that whole program and brought it over to BART. And I knew within the first 90 days, what I wanted to do was get on the ground. Get on the ground and start to really meet people and understand how the people felt, what the people were going through.
And then besides that, the one key thing that's always missing in every agency, that I kind of hit my head up against the wall about, is that middle management and the training for the middle management. We'll train an operator, we'll train a fore worker, we'll train a transportation supervisor, but there's no standard training program for the management level so that they understand emotional intelligence, they understand financial acumen, they understand how to have a one-on-one, all these key things. We may use DISC or TILD or something else, to find out personalities, but you never get to the root of how a person can run a business and run a business effectively.
So that was something else that I was looking into, because I inherited our training department as well too, that reports to me for transportation. So I wanted to change that as well too. So I already had a plan going in, and then I built an executive business plan that I shared with the entire workforce. I started with the assistant chiefs, and went from there for transportation so they understood the vision, and the direction that we're going in.
And we're still living and breathing that document today, to make sure that everything that I put out there, we're actually hitting on each point. And if you don't have a vision to go after, or people don't know what they're going after every single day, you're kind of just spinning your wheels. And that was, like I said, getting into the workforce and understanding their needs, and the things that they haven't had, and the things that they haven't been exposed to. It was, I wouldn't say easy, because we're still going through that cultural shift, but there's a pathway, that people can start to see the light.
And once you start joining people on board, they're going to follow when they start to see other people practicing it.
Carol:
Yeah. That was so good. I mean, if I were to put that in a kind of a plan, it sounds like it was so people forward, in terms of, which is what our whole thing is at the podcast, that first you went and met with the people, saw the needs, got their input, got a firsthand look at what was happening and what you were going to be leading.
Then you brought a framework, your CLIMB into the table, to be able to have something that was like a governing way in which you would think about doing the work. You saw where the holes were in the middle management training, and really focusing on how do we level that up to be more successful. And then, you built a plan and cast a vision, and had everyone aligned in that plan and moving in the right direction.
I mean, that's a powerful formula for, if I had to say, here's the first 90-day plan, a leadership plan to come into an organization, that's incredible.
And I'm sure, I mean now, over a year later, I'm sure the success that you've had has been based on, you've seen the fruits of coming in with that kind of strategy in those first 90 days.
Derik:
So let me tell you, so with the manager program, so we had this book when I was at AC Transit, that was introduced from our HR director and it's called The Successful Manager's Handbook. And we all kind of sat there and read it as a team and stuff like that. And then, I brought that over to VTA, but I did it in a different way where I had each person create a PowerPoint for each section and present.
This time what I did is, I actually had a writer come in and write curriculum. And so, that writer came in, wrote curriculum. So we have curriculum for the whole entire program. It's in its pilot phase now with about 25 cohorts.
Carol:
Wow.
Derik:
And what I did is I talked with maintenance, the maintenance chief, and I said, "Hey, why don't you join on board as well too? And then we could start to build, and that'll effectively help BART in the long run."
So I have to thank BART for allowing me to be able to do it. And it has really been taken off like nobody's business. So it's going in a really good direction.
The other thing we're doing-
Carol:
That's incredible.
Derik:
Yeah, the other thing that's tied to that is labor and people not understanding collective bargaining agreements. So we have exclusive labor training as well too, that's incorporated into that training as well.
Carol:
Yeah. I wanted to talk to you about that, because I know that sometimes that could be a tricky thing when you have executives and leaders having that connection with unions and bargaining units. So you've chaired negotiations with five different unions and helped reinforce the high road workforce partnership with ATU, and most executives can see bargaining as adversarial, and so can unions.
And so, it depends on the mindset that people are coming in with, that it could really be problematic, but your record really suggests something a little bit different. So, what have you learned in that process around building trust with people, that leaders kind of get wrong when it then comes to that side of the house, and really trying to keep a strong relationship and collaboration in how you're working with your union partnerships?
Derik:
To be honest with you, first, it started with my parents. My dad was the union president for Local 790 in Berkeley. And then my mom was the union president for Local 1, which is now, I think Teamsters now, but it was Local 1 for the Teachers Association.
And the one thing that they always told me, especially when I got into management and they knew that I was going to deal with unions, is to always make sure that you build that relationship. And, besides building that relationship, always make sure that you are honest as well too.
And some of the situations are going to be, you're going to fight across the table with certain things, but at the end of the day, if you always stay real, and you always have that open door where you're sitting down and really talking about things, some people have their own agenda, but if you stay the course and keep your integrity and make sure that those conversations are open and clear, you create that pathway.
At VTA, VTA had the high road partnership that was already in place way before I got there, but we kind of re-energized it when I was there, especially with my position as the vice chair for APTA's workforce development. And so, what I wanted to do is put VTA on the center stage and say, "Hey, look, look at this work that VTA has done. And look at the work that they've done with the union, and walking hand in hand with the union, and understanding that if they could do it, anybody can do it." And making sure that, again, you're being open and transparent.
And that goes all the way down to the budgeting and how you allocate funds for different programs, how you go in as a partner to establish a relationship with the college to be able to start to build apprenticeships. And that was the key thing at VTA, being able to establish that relationship with Mission College, really start to get the investment, from understanding how to become a train operator, to understanding how to become a mechanic and working hand in hand with ATU, to be a part of training that curriculum, being a part of that curriculum, finding the funds to be able to fund for that. But also tying to the college, where you're actually receiving college credits for doing a program through that high road partnership.
So it's a lot of work with the unions. But again, if you're open, and you both have the same objective, and this is always what I say to all my union partners, I say to them, look, it's our people, it's us together, and it's not just ATU members or whatever. We're all walking as one unit, because inevitably we are the face of BART, or we're the face of AC or VTA, whatever. And so, we need to walk it together and do it better for the people.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like grounding people around what you talked about before, like a vision or a mission, we're all moving in the same direction.
Derik:
Right.
Carol:
So how can we partner and do that best together and having that conversation?
Derik:
Correct.
Carol:
I love that. You talked about the workforce development committee. You are the vice chair of APTA.
Derik:
I am.
Carol:
Okay. Workforce Development Committee, which is where we met, at the great conference and you gave a great panel conversation. And the workforce is arguably the biggest long-term challenge that this industry faces, with retirements and recruitment. When you were talking about this partnership with Mission, for example.
I'm curious, what do you think is a transit industry? What are they getting right about developing the next generation of leaders? And where do we need to be honest about where we're falling short?
Derik:
I think where we're getting it right is actually looking at the technology that's out there. So, I'll give you an example, a piece of what we talked about in that workforce summit was AI, and how AI would be integrated into the conversations that we're having now with trying to build the workforce. And inevitably, we have to reshape transit in some type of way, to be able to adjust to what we're seeing in the world today.
So AI is a piece of it, and believing in asking the question that people keep asking, is AI going to replace me? No, AI is not going to replace you. But if we take AI and make people better, that's the way that we should be looking at technology.
And I hope, with the question that you're asking, I'm really thinking about, again, the people. And it should help us to improve decision-making. It should free employees to do what humans do best, and that's lead, innovate, and serve customers.
And when you look at our future workforce, they will need the technical skills. And I think we're doing the right thing by doing these apprenticeship programs, and everything else to make people become a part of understanding what the future holds, and how the future can dictate things, and how we move forward in the future. And that it doesn't matter where we go, leadership, it becomes indispensable, especially if you, if you do those things right. What was your second question? I'm sorry.
Carol:
Just what are we not doing well, when it comes to building that next generation to do what you said, which I love is lead, innovate, and customer service. And to that regard, I'm curious, are you getting some of that feedback from the apprentice that you're bringing on, that young generation you are partnering with and connecting with, are they giving you some insight about, you all could maybe do a little bit improvement here? What are we not doing well or getting wrong in this conversation?
Derik:
From agencies, I think a lot of the disconnect comes from the executive to the worker. And there's such a distance in between the two, that sometimes we get caught up on, we have to appease this person, we have to do this person instead of bringing the people in that actually do the business every day, getting their input, understanding those things that are growing wrong for us to be able to fix them moving forward.
I just met recently with this young group of high school students, not too long ago, and that was kind of the questions I asked them. What are we doing wrong?
And they're saying that, look, you guys aren't using AI like we are. You guys aren't using these different things. The technology that's coming out, we don't feel like you guys are up to speed. And I say, could you elaborate on that a little bit more? Like, on your train, are you guys thinking about different things that would attract the younger generation? Like, whether you're at VTA working close to Google, are you tying in Google to see if Google can come in and be on one of your trains, and advertise something Google related that we can actually appreciate and associate with?
So, I think really when you think about this newer generation, it's all based on technology and social media, and all these key things, and people want to see more of that to attract the younger workforce in the future. And I think we need to get down to the ground level and make sure that we understand what the workforce is going to look like in the future, and how we can start to accommodate that now.
Carol:
Yeah, that's a great model to be able to. Because I think going back to what you said earlier about some people think, oh, I need to be the smartest one in the room and it's all about me. And from even your perspective of leadership, meaning I work for you, you have a tendency to go to the ground, go to the main people to find out what's happening, what's going on.
And this disconnect you talked about sometimes between executives and workers, I love that you are asking the question. I think that's, it's okay not to know and to get the information from the horse's mouth and let that help to inform how you're thinking and some approaches, to your point around what leaders need to do, which is lead, innovate, and serve customers. And so, to be able to do that, you got to know what's happening on the ground.
And so I love that you're modeling that, that you're just asking these young kids, you're working with these young apprentices, you're on the ground asking how is this working, and what's happening, so that you can make the better decisions at that executive level.
Derik:
Yeah. One of the good things that the GM implemented here at BART, it's called Managers Riding Trains. So every Tuesday, they call us blue coats because we all come out in blue jackets, but what he does is he has everybody assigned to certain lines.
And so, they all go out during the commute time, whether it's in an AM or the PM commute, and they're the A team and the B team, and each week you're going out there and you're actually engaging with the people that do the business every single day, whether it's a train operator or a station agent for worker, whomever. But there's a presence in the system, and people feel like, one, they're being heard. But also two, that there is concern for what they go through day in and day out and how tough their job really is.
Carol:
Yeah. I want to continue this conversation around AI coming into the transit operations and predictive maintenance, service optimization, and even how control centers make decisions. How do you think about AI in an environment like yours, where a frontline workforce is closely watching? We talked about, "Oh my God, I'm going to lose my job." And what does People Forward adoption of this technology, what will it require from the leadership to really steward this kind of change or movement into bringing more, to building a more robust AI environment?
Derik:
I think you need to build a safe environment so that people don't think it's going to replace them. You're always going to need customer service, and I don't think a computer or anything else can do customer service the way a human can. And so, making sure that there's a clear distinction there.
But also too, the one frustrating thing, and people may call me crazy when you think about ChatGPT or Grok or all these other things, I think it's great. They're great tools, but people need to think. And I think people are going to stop with the lack of creativity and thinking outside the box. You're just going to put a question in, and have somebody answer for you.
We've got to make sure that people don't feel, again, like this is going to make you obsolete. It's actually going to encourage you and make you think a lot more, and make you structure a little bit better, but it's going to make you think a lot more and give you more options in order for you to grow as a person that's going to, like I said before, lead, communicate, innovate, and Serve the customers a little bit different. I hope that answered your question.
Carol:
Yeah, absolutely. It's one of the things, I know at the Workforce Summit, there's a lot of conversation around that, and I know, I've read so many pieces and even done my own presentations around knowledge decay, or learning stagnation, and the lack of critical thinking, that because we don't want to farm out our thought process to a machine, we want to engage the machine and elevate our thinking process.
Derik:
Right.
Carol:
And that is something to be concerned around and helping people to understand the difference and be able to recognize what AI is giving you, because it's a pattern recognition machine. It's not a God, who doesn't know all. It's just spinning back information, and we still have to be the connoisseurs and the conveyor of the information that's coming through.
And so yeah, having those conversations within your environment, so that people know that they're still going to be priority, that it's still people and thought and nuance and everything you bring to the table is important.
Derik:
And if you don't continue to build you, you're not going to have information to put into that AI system in order for them to spit something out.
Carol:
Great point.
Derik:
Because it takes a lot of the stuff that you do, and all these different things and then twist it in a way that sometimes make people look better or get them to form it in a better structure.
But if you're losing you and you're losing your ability to think and your ability to think outside the box, it's going to become very, kind of mundane, and not really something people are going to be attracted to.
Carol:
Exactly. And that's how you can get replaced because you don't know how to do that critical thinking. Yeah. The other way around, I think is how people think about it.
So, you talked about people feeling safe and seen and heard, which I think is so important. And I'm curious how you create the conditions where your team can feel seen and safe and able to perform. And in light of that, what does psychological safety, for example, look like in operation environments where mistakes can be real consequences?
Derik:
Yeah, and that's some of the things that I kind of dealt with in several agencies, with people that were leading from a dictatorial standpoint, not leading with empathy. And to me, I feel like psychological safety isn't about lowering your standards at all. It's about making sure that you increase honesty.
And people need to know that when they raise concerns or problems, they can become a crisis if they're not addressed. So what I do is, I tell leaders, if employees have the ability to be able to speak up when everything is perfect, we're already too late. So you need to make sure that you let employees have a voice.
And I've said this before, they do the business every single day. We just put together here a morale committee, that's made up of people from different unions, different job specs, that are all talking around a table about what we could do to improve on the things that are issues there. I want them to feel safe. I want them to feel like this is the Vegas rules, and everything else, in order for us to get these issues addressed.
And you're not going to necessarily agree with everything, but at the end of the day, I want the people to leave meetings, and just leave the job every single day, feeling like they're respected.
And again, like I said, you don't necessarily have to agree with everything, but people need to at least feel respected. And at the end of the day, when they start to feel respected, that's where that trust begins. And then you can start to really start to build more based off of that trust. And now, people start to feel like they could conquer the world, because they have the ability to have their voices heard and they feel safe when they say things.
And, not that somebody is going to later down the line try to figure out ways to write them up or get them out of here because they spoke their voice. As long as their voice was respectful and it was meaningful, you should be able to allow people to talk and feel safe when they're talking.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That is so good. I love that you have a morale committee. I think that is a great way to bring people together to get an honest pulse of what's happening. But I also love what you said, that psychological safety is not about lowering standards, but increasing honesty. Boom. Love that as a definition.
Derik:
Yes.
Carol:
Yeah. And having that space, that is amazing.
So before I let you go, I would love to get your thoughts around this. For the leader listening, whether they run a transit agency of a team of five, whether it's a team of 105, what's the one shift you challenge them to make in how they lead their people? And I mean, you've given us so much, but if you have some closing, something that you would just want to drop for that new leader. Or, even an existing long-term leader who's thinking, I got to shift some things around as I think about how I've been leading, and maybe not as been as effective as it's been, what would you share?
Derik:
I think with me, I would tell people, there's a couple of things. It wouldn't just be one thing, but leadership isn't about building a resume. That's the first thing. It's about building other people.
And at the end of the day, when I retire, I don't want people to remember the budgets I managed or the titles that I held. I want them to remember that I helped them believe that they could become more than what they thought they could be. And that to me is real success.
And if you invest in your people, they'll exceed your expectations. And I've seen it over the years, that all the jobs that I've been able to do, it's about people. And you invest in them, they will go further than you even think. And then, if you only invest in performance, then eventually the performance is going to disappear anyway.
So to me, it's always been people-first leadership. It isn't about being soft or soft leadership. I think really it's the most suitable leadership I believe that's out there.
And I'd also encourage people to do interviews that capture more of a person's philosophy, and also what a person's legacy, what they want their legacy to be. And you'll probably capture a better person.
And I'll say this as well too. I've spent almost 40 years in some form of leadership, and I did learn one thing. And that one thing is this, is that systems move organizations, but people move systems. If we develop our people with the same intensity that we develop our operations, there's no limit to what the organization can accomplish. So people first, and CLIMB. Do those things and the organization will be one of the best around. And that's just my belief, and that's what I would say.
Carol:
Okay. I just have to say that gave me goosebumps. I love, "Systems move organizations, but people move systems." Did I get that right?
Derik:
Truth.
Carol:
That is good.
Derik:
Truth.
Carol:
That's really good. Thank you so much.
Derik:
No problem.
Carol:
Those are incredible, incredible words to live by.
Derik:
Thank you.
Carol:
Derik, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for this conversation. It was incredibly insightful.
Derik:
Thank you so much for inviting me and I really, really appreciate it. I'm up for chair for APTA Workforce Development.
Carol:
Awesome.
Derik:
Hopefully I'll get it, but I'm just super excited about the future of transit, and the leaders that we're building.
Carol:
Oh, yes, yes. Well, I mean, you will be a powerful chair, with your vision and what you're doing. How you can lead that part of APTA would be incredible. Yeah.
Derik:
I appreciate that. I do.
Carol:
Yeah, for sure. So listen, I appreciate your leadership. I appreciate the care that you bring to the people that you move in the Bay Area every single day, and definitely appreciate you being here. So again, thank you.
Derik:
No problem. Thank you.
Carol:
And to, listen, everyone listening, if today's conversation sparks something for you, and if you're thinking about how to lead your people through uncertainty, build trust within your frontline or prepare your organization for what's next, I would love to hear from you. You can visit us at thriveaaxisgroup.com, or you can reach out to us directly at hello@thriveaxisgroup.com.
And definitely check out the show notes for links and resources for some of the things that Derik shared with us today, and more information about Derik, if you even want to reach out to him on LinkedIn. And until next time, keep leading people forward, and I'll see you soon.
