Carol:
Welcome, welcome to the People-Forward Leadership Podcast. I am so excited that you decided to join me today, because my guest, which I'm so excited to have her on, has spent a career focused on the people part of leadership. Yvonne Lopez-Diaz is a senior vice president and national workforce strategist at HNTB Corporation, with more than 26 years leading talent strategy and organizational development across the transportation industry. She's a nationally recognized leader and former chair of the WTS Foundation, where she advanced initiatives that awarded over $2 million in scholarships and strengthened the pipeline of women in transportation. She's a COMTO Women Who Move the Nation honoree, a two-time recipient of the Rosa Parks Diversity Leadership Award, and was named one of E&O's top women to watch. She's known for strategic vision, a deep commitment to mentorship, and building inclusive high-performing teams, and is an exceptionally well-respected voice in transit. Yvonne, I am so looking forward to this. Welcome and thank you for being on the podcast.
Yvonne:
Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to be on your podcast. I'm excited for our time together.
Carol:
Awesome. Thank you. So most people in transportation that I talk to, come up either through engineering or a lot of operators. They start driving and then they end up being in leadership. You came up through people being in talent strategy, organizational development, and across pharma, and now more than two decades with HNTB. And today your title is literally National Workforce Strategist. So I would love for you to walk us through that journey. How did you become the person who shapes how an entire infrastructure thinks about its workforce?
Yvonne:
I love the question. Thank you. So I came up in this industry through the people side of the business, frankly both in the pharma industry and with HNTB through the people side of the business. So when HR was often seen as a transactional support function, not a strategic driver. It's always been seen in the past as that. Early in my career, both at Bayer and at HNTB, I learned every dimension of the people side of the business. From benefits and compensation and immigration and employee relations and people management, development training. I've been exposed to every part of-
Carol:
Wow.
Yvonne:
... HR. But over time I became a trusted advisor to my business leaders at HNTB, helping them solve challenges, complex people challenges that were tied directly to performance and organizational role. That's really a little bit of how I came up. But what shifted my trajectory into what I do right now for HNTB is recognizing that the real challenge wasn't about staffing. It wasn't about finding one person to meet one particular need. It was anticipating what the organization would need next, which is what ultimately led me to workforce strategy. And I'm the only one in a firm of 8,000 people that does what I do.
Carol:
Wow.
Yvonne:
Prior to HNTB, as you articulated, I served the pharmaceutical industry for 17 years in those various HR leadership roles. But at HNTB for more than two decades, my role evolved from one of HR leadership where I served every part of the organization, I've served every division, to the national role that I have now, where I sit in the intersection between business strategy, workforce planning, and execution.
Carol:
Wow.
Yvonne:
I partner with leaders on major pursuits and helping to organize around major pursuits, not only to win, but to deliver these pursuits. I help them to ensure that we have the right skills, the right leadership, and the capacity in place, not just to win the work, but to deliver it to our client's satisfaction. So my career journey has been one about not necessarily linear, if you will, because for 20 years at HNTB, I served in one role. That was an HR director role, but I served every part of the organization, not just one geographical area. I served the entire country. But what really resonates with me in terms of my career has been the journey that I've been on. One about helping the organization align people strategy to business strategy. That's the point right there. You've got to align your people strategy to your business strategy to achieve the best business outcomes.
That's what creates opportunity for both the company and the people inside it.
Carol:
I love that. I mean, one, wow, you're the only person doing that work. But I mean your breadth of experience and your ability to do, as you said, understand how to align people strategy with business strategy is such a unique combination, and your background I know definitely supports that. I love what you said about really seeing what's next and understanding... I mean, you have to have this kind of future vision for what's happening in the industry and have your pulse on things of that nature. So you have an incredible vantage point that most leaders never get, because you get to see workforce across projects and country from the inside and out. What does that vantage point let you see about this industry that an operations person or other people, or even just someone who's maybe seen only a little bit of HR but not seen the breadth and depth that you've seen, how does that vantage point help you to really let the organization prepare for what's next?
Yvonne:
I'll tell you what I always like to say when others ask me a similar question about the role that I have, because it's very unique. Not many organizations like HNTD has a person or an organization or a department that does what I do. So it's not about recruiting, it's not about staffing. What I do, it's people related, but what I do is specific to strategy. It's about strategizing around the right outcomes. I help our leaders strategize to achieve the best outcomes. But here's the thing. I get to see the system behind the system. So that's unique there, right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
Most leaders are focused and rightly so they should be, on delivering projects. Deliver to the client satisfaction within budget, within time. The way that HNTB articulates it, is, is quality work on time, on budget to the client satisfaction in that manner. So that's what our people are focused on, and advancing the growth of the organization. But what I see is whether we actually have the leadership capacity, the functional and technical depth and succession pipeline to sustain that growth. It's not just to achieve the growth, but to sustain it. And what often gets missed is the line between business ambition and workforce readiness. You want to drive for outcomes, outcomes, outcomes, but are you ready to capitalize on that when the opportunity arises?
And that's what I help our leaders see. By the time a gap shows up, sometimes it's the root cause is what often started much earlier than that. So when a gap shows up in talent, like for example, right now I'm helping our leaders work on some really deep gaps that we have on... And we're working successfully to adjust those in some pursuits that are coming up. But when a gap shows up, the root cause has frankly started much earlier than when you identify it.
So that's why you have to plan ahead of time. When that miss in the talent is identified, the pipeline tends to suffer. Leadership development and workforce planning tends to suffer, so you've got to do everything well in advance. Sometimes I engage on pursuits two, three years before they hit the street. I mean, you're planning well in advance, well in advance. It's not just, "Hey, we've got to pursue. Oh, we've got a project we're working on, and we got to deliver today." Now typically when I engage, it's two or three years in advance when we're thinking about organizing for it, and that's when you have to be prepared for that. So that's why my role is rather than unique and that perspective reinforces something that I truly believe in, and what I stand for every day is that workforce strategy is a business strategy. It's not just about human resources, recruiting and talent. It is tied to business strategy. And if you don't plan for your people, you don't plan to have those resources, you are already behind the competition.
Carol:
Gotcha.
Yvonne:
When you're behind the competition, to stand still is to stay behind still.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. I love what you said about strategy. As I think about it, it's moving away from a right now strategy to, as you talked about, a future ready strategy. Right? And so thinking about capacity pipeline, I love the very simple question, "Are you ready?" And so just taking a peak... So I'm thinking about transit organizations that don't have you there, and ways that they could think about asking the question today, "Are we ready?" And then what's the strategy they need to put into place to assess leadership capability and capacity for the things that they want to do, and then build that pipeline to get there. Because you're right, when this stuff comes upon you and you're like, "Oh my goodness, we don't have the capacity or capabilities around us," you're going to miss out on opportunities or not execute effectively. That's going to impact your bottom line.
Yvonne:
Absolutely. That's why developing from within is so critical. It's developing at every level of your organization so that those individuals are ready to step into those opportunities when the need arises. And you're not having to operate in a reactionary mode. You're not having to operate, for example, where we need five engineers today because we're behind on this project. You should have had those five engineers, they should have been developed already. So that's what we focus on is really developing and getting your workforce ready for when those opportunities arise. Are you going to have people sitting on the bench? No, because that's not how our business functions. But they're already working on projects where they're building their skills so that they're ready to move into a leadership role.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. That's-
Yvonne:
That internal development is so critical.
Carol:
Yeah, I think that is so amazing. So for the leaders who are listening, what's the most urgent workforce challenge that you think is facing transit right now? The one that you think leaders are understanding or maybe not even aware of or seeing or paying enough attention to?
Yvonne:
Yeah. So I think about this every single day. Because the more that we are, not just as a transit industry, but as a transportation industry as a whole, we have to be ready for that shortage of talent. I mean, there's a shortage of talent right now. There's retirements, competition for talent, there's skill gaps that are real. All of that are real issues. But what I believe that leaders really are underestimating is how quickly that the pressures compound if you don't have a strong leadership pipeline and succession in place, a succession pipeline in place. That's that internal development that I just shared. You've got to be very intentional about developing your young professionals, your mid-level professionals, and frankly, even your senior level professionals. Everyone needs to be developed along the way. And it takes that intentional development, advocating, coaching, and mentoring, and developing that has to happen to ensure that pipeline is in place when you need it.
It's not enough just to simply bring people into the workforce. You need leaders who can develop others. See, at HNTB, we have something we call the 17 characteristics of leaders, and one of those is developing others. As a leader, you have to be intentional about developing that next person that can take over your role or be developed for another role. One of the things that I took that I do in my development of others is that I'm very intentional about if I spend time developing them, they've got to spend time developing others. That's with that pay it forward, that I call it creating somebody greater than you. You've got to be very intentional about that. I also think that many organizations underestimate how much trust and clarity impact workforce outcomes. That's important as well.
So if people are unclear about priorities, if they don't feel safe raising risks, that's important. They need to feel that they can be open about challenges and risks, whether be it on a project or with a client or a relationship, then they don't see a path forward. I mean, that's important for them to feel that safety, and you tend to lose capacity in ways that don't show up on an org chart. So my challenge, the challenge is both structural in my opinion and human. Do you have the right people? That's the first question. And are you creating conditions for them to be successful and want to stay with the organization long term?
Carol:
Yeah. I think that is so good. I mean, you dropped so many amazing things that I just really want to make sure that we're highlighting. And one, I love when you said that pressure compounds. And I often tell people that problems, it's like interests. It's like interest on a debt. It just grows and grows. It doesn't stay stagnant.
Yvonne:
Absolutely.
Carol:
It grows. And so if you don't intervene now or quickly, it's going to be harder when it's bigger and more challenging to wrap your mind around. So I love that you use that phrase around pressure compounds. I also really liked how you talked about developing leaders at every level and the 17 checklists that you have or touchpoints in terms of what makes a leader and about paying it forward. Because what I hear you say is that it's not just skill development, right? It's not just, are you technically good at what you do, but are you able to lift and bring other people along? Are you able to develop other leaders? As you said, make someone greater than you. And so that's not just technical skills, that's a whole nother cadre of skills that we used to call soft skills that I call essential skills, but are so necessary that sometimes that gets missed in this effort that we have to have, like you said, this engineer or this accountant or this whatever, but we want to make sure that we're also creating people who can develop other people.
Yvonne:
Absolutely.
Carol:
Yeah, I think that is so critical.
Yvonne:
And the other character, we call them the 17 characteristics of leaders, the other characteristics are so critical. As a leader and as a... Well, I see everyone as a leader, right? You're either leading a project, you're leading an effort, you're leading a task of some sort. So you're a leader. Another characteristic is being self-aware. Being self-aware that how you impact others, how you're showing up and your authenticity is impacting others. And that's a key characteristics of being an effective leader at my firm or anywhere else.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And the framework that we developed that I've developed and we work with, is called People-Forward Leadership was the name of the podcast, but the first pillar of that is leader awareness, we call it. That's the number one thing, because if you don't know yourself... You know? Most people know this study by Tasha Eurich that talked about that 85% of people think they're self-aware, but only 15% of people actually are.
Yvonne:
Oh my [inaudible 00:18:03].
Carol:
Right? And so if you're going to lead other people, you have to start by, like you said, having that self-awareness around your own authentic voice, your communication style and skills, and how you lead, and what that means, so that you can actually be able to see that and lead other people.
Yvonne:
I think the other area where self-awareness comes into play, especially in the role that I have in the firm, is how I always ask for feedback on something that I've helped a leader with. "How did that work for you? How did it achieve the outcomes that you were looking for?" Because that's how we continuously improve. That is how we're listening to others, we're understanding where we might be better the next time around. So that self-awareness comes into play by asking others, "How did I do for you, on that particular project? What could have been better?" Because that's how we're going to sharpen our saw all the time.
Carol:
I completely agree with that. And in line with that, I'm curious, when you look honestly at how this industry treats people, what do you think is the hardest truth that leaders need to sit with? What's the feedback that maybe some should have?
Yvonne:
Well, again, it's about being authentic, it's about having trust, ensure that your teams trust you. Not just those that report to you, but those that work around you, that they trust you as a leader that's going to be able to deliver on whatever aspect of the project you're working on. So I think that feedback comes into play when we're trying to understand as an individual, we're trying to understand how our work is impacting others and the organization as a whole.
Carol:
Yeah. And I like what you said about that. So asking the question as a leader, "Does my team trust me? Does my team feel safe? And am I aware of that? Am I getting the feedback from my team members so that I have that information and know what I need to maybe change or do and do different to create that safety, trust?".
Yvonne:
Absolutely.
Carol:
And having that clarity that you talked about, so that they can see themselves there beyond just the moment, but in the future of the work-
Yvonne:
Absolutely.
Carol:
... that's coming their way. Yeah. Yeah. So amazing. Okay. So the thing about your work is that I know you have an area you're leading people, but really the heart of what you do as you described it is to make sure that people are building the right teams for the future of what they're doing. So you're building leadership capacity at scale for other organizations. So how do you build people-forward leadership into organizations? So it's systemic, right? Using that kind of strategic mindset. Instead of depending on one good manager in the room, so that it's really felt throughout the organization.
Yvonne:
Yeah, so people-forward leadership becomes systemic when it's embedded. When it's embedded in how decisions get made, not just how leaders behave. So that means three things in my opinion. First, clarity of expectations. People need to understand what is expected of them. Leaders need to understand that developing people, building trust, and creating alignment are not just nice to haves. They are part of delivering the results. You've got to have every element of that. Second is aligned systems. Those are critical as well. If your performance metrics, incentives, and leadership conversations only reward outcomes and not how those outcomes are achieved, then people-forward leadership won't stick. It really won't.
And then third is modeling at the top. I always say everything starts at the top and rolls down, right? It drills down. Leaders replicate what they experience. So if senior leaders demonstrate transparency, if they demonstrate accountability, or if they have accountability, and care in how they lead, then others will follow. That's how we lead at HNTB. That's the expectation we have, all the way from the top of our CEO rank all the way down through the most entry level intern that we have. Everyone is expected to be at their very best, and it starts from the top.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Clarity, rewarding the behavior you want reinforced and modeling. Yeah, I always tell leaders that if there's a problem in the organization, look in the mirror, because they're-
Yvonne:
Absolutely.
Carol:
... mirroring what you're doing. It is not coming out of a vacuum.
Yvonne:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Carol:
Yeah, yeah. No, that's amazing. So I want to pivot a little bit, because as chair of the WTS Foundation, you've helped steer initiatives that we talked about earlier, awarded over $2 million in scholarships and strengthened the pipeline of women in transportation. So for a leader who wants to build their own talent pipeline and isn't sure where to start, what actually moves the needle?
Yvonne:
So in my opinion, it's intentionality. You've got to be intentional about what you do. So through my work with the WTS Foundation, I just concluded my term as chair, and then especially as serving as chair for that timeframe, we focused more than on just scholarships. Our focus was on access, was on exposure, and was on sustained development pathways for women entering the workforce. And especially with the foundation, it's especially at the grade level and the high school level and the college level. That's the pipeline for-
Carol:
Wow.
Yvonne:
... membership at WTS, right? For those that will be lifelong members, that's the pipeline. You've got to start at the grade school level. And frankly, in my opinion, you've got to start in kindergarten to really influence women and young girls to look at transportation as careers. But in my opinion, if a leader wants to build a pipeline, here are three things that matter.
Early engagement, just like I said, reaching students early in their career and early in their career as a student, if you will, early in their path to emphasize or encourage careers in transportation. I would say meaningful exposure is the second internships, mentorships, real world experience, that help people see themselves in the industry. So for example, on Saturday, we are embarking on a week long experiential learning exercise for 30 high school girls that we're taking to the capital region, and we're going to expose them to all fields of transportation.
Carol:
Wow.
Yvonne:
Airports to rail, to bike, and transit, and you name it. Aviation, every mode of transportation, they're going to get a feel for how careers are molded and developed in those modes, if you will.
Carol:
That's incredible.
Yvonne:
Very exciting, I'm looking forward to it. And every year we get to influence at least anywhere between 25 and 30 high school girls to look at transportation as their future career. And then the third is sustained investment, right? It's not on one program, but a continual support and development that's critical. And the biggest mistake I see is treating the talent pipeline and in this case from the foundation's perspective, that a younger group of girls that we're trying to influence, is to really see that as a one-time initiative. You cannot see it as a one-time initiative. It's a long-term commitment. Pipeline building is about creating belief and opportunity, and then staying invested in the people as they grow. Because if you're only doing it it's a one and done, it's not going to be sustainable.
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
Absolutely.
Carol:
I love that. Yeah. Pipeline is about belief and opportunity and staying invested. I love that-
Yvonne:
Absolutely.
Carol:
... as a overarching principle. And when you talked about early engagement, meaningful exposure, or sustained investment, what came to mind is that it doesn't have to be a costly endeavor. Even if you just went to your local schools or middle schools just to engage, or invited them to your agency for a day to tour, just to see what happens, it doesn't sound like it has to be an overly taxing activity to really be the catalyst of building that pipeline, of creating belief and opportunity, as you talked about.
Yvonne:
Absolutely. Spending time in the grade schools, in the elementary schools, or anywhere from K to 12, or in the colleges, really just talking about what you do or what your industry does, just really opens the ears to individuals that may be saying, "Maybe I don't want to do computer engineering. This transit development sounds exciting. Or developing a rail line sounds exciting. Or being a bus driver or a train engineer. That sounds exciting too." So it's about spending the time and the investment. And you're right, it doesn't have to cost money. It can cost time.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah, and I had another interview, I know before, and the person was talking about just the importance of telling stories too, and she was just sharing things like how bus drivers contribute to the community. I think a driver or somebody bought a car seat to make sure that somebody could actually ride the bus, or to make sure that they were checking in on people in the community. I mean, it is so much more than I think people realize, the connection and the impact that transportation has and what it does for the community that it finds itself in.
Yvonne:
I always like to say that transportation is the great equalizer. People say, "What does that mean?"
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
Everyone needs transportation, whether you're going to work, going to school, going to a religious institution, going to a medical facility, or even just going to have fun. Transportation is the great equalizer. It is what ties everything together.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. You are correct. I love that. It's the great equalizer. So the industry, you talked about this earlier that we're starting to see retirements. And that's happening in many industries, we already know that 11,000 boomers become retirement eligible daily, not to mention older Gen Xers as well. So we're starting to see the retirement wave, which means skill gaps are leaving, institutional knowledge and things of that nature are leaving, and it's creating a tough hiring market. So what people-forward strategies have you actually seen work, that, maybe not theory, but in real projects that you've seen work to really combat that?
Yvonne:
Yeah. And again, I think I referred to this earlier, it's about the intentional development from within. [inaudible 00:29:43] to develop your folks from within, rather than buying talent or should I say, I don't want to say buying talent, but recruiting, if you will. You've got to build talent, not just hire talent. Now that's not to say that you don't need to hire Individuals to bring in some fresh blood into your organization, new thinking, fresh thinking, that's important. You've got to do that. But you've got to focus on developing those that are working hard today to grow in their careers and not just see somebody else coming over them. Right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
So developing [inaudible 00:30:20]. Organizations that invest in developing their people through mentoring, through stretch of opportunities, and we have a wonderful initiative at my firm where we encourage our young professionals to take up leadership roles in big departments. So we'll have, let's say for example, a department that's maybe 60 people large. Well, we'll have on younger professionals to give them some learning and opportunity to develop themselves, opportunities to lead sales, lead operations, lead the business function. They're learning. They're going to make mistakes and we want them to make mistakes, right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
That's how they're going to fall forward and learn. But we give them opportunities because those are the individuals that when that role becomes available at an office-wide level, they're ready because they've done it at a department level. So that's a stretch opportunity that I always like to refer to. But we have to create more sustainable solutions than those that are just relying on external hiring. Again, external hiring is important. We hire a thousand people a year every year, and it's been even more than that. That's important. You've got to do that to sustain your pursuits and opportunities. And also as people move up, you're bringing in people either below or at the same level so that they can continue the path as well. But we at our firm believe wholeheartedly that the future of our firm is being built every single day, by those that are being developed.
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
That's how you build the future. You're developing today so that you'll have those individuals ready to move into those leadership opportunities in the future. The next area that I want to center on as it relates to that is being honest about how ready your workforce really is, right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
And the strongest teams are those where leaders can talk openly about capacity and readiness, taking risks and gaps. And that transparency allows for better decision making as well. And then lastly, a strengthening cross-functional collaboration. I think that's critical as workforce challenges rarely sit in one place. When HR, operations, business leaders are aligned, that alignment provides a better solution for business strategy, tied into business strategy as well. So I think those things all come in together. And what ties all of this together is really having the right mindset, the right leadership mindset that people are not a constraint to manage. You should never see people as a constraint to manage. They are an asset to grow and make sure that they're aligned to your organization and the outcomes that you're seeking.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. All such good stuff. One of the things that... when you talked about what you all do at the firm, bringing in leaders, getting them exposed to different areas, I think that is so undervalued to expose people to different opportunities. Just because someone comes in as a mechanic doesn't mean that they may not have an interest in going into finance or engineering or IT, or some of the other aspects that are available in transit. And by giving people that exposure, wow, you are homegrowing. You're not only giving them ideas about what's possible for their future and their career, because sometimes when you come into a certain role, it could feel like, "I can only go so far, and I'm a dead end." And so then you do start looking outside.
So by creating the space for people to be exposed to other fields and other parts of the industry, not only I think can go a long way in terms of that retention, I know you said creating the space where people want to stay, but wow, in terms of building that potential pipeline of people maybe deciding, "I think I want to go back to school, or I want to continue school, or I want to try something else," but they stay within the organization and continue to help that organization grow, I think that's incredible that you all do that and make that available.
Yvonne:
Absolutely. This is the season right now where our firm hires all of our interns while they're away from school. So we hire on average about 600 interns a year throughout the entire nation. And we give them that exposure to try rail and then maybe move over to bridge design or maybe construction inspection, and maybe they want to try construction management, or maybe they want to try business or HR or communications. Wherever their interest lies, we try to feed off of that and say, "Okay, let's have you circulate and move over to this part of the business so that you can learn that and you become a more well-rounded individual." Right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
You could be going to school to be a project manager, but your exposure during your internship is in construction. What a benefit and a beauty it is to see both sides, right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
See how the work that you do on the design side of the house really goes into practice when it's being constructed. So I love those opportunities to be able to provide a well-rounded exposure.
Carol:
Yeah. How great. Yeah. And then not only that, people get to see that in one organization they can grow and expand, which I think is amazing.
Yvonne:
Absolutely.
Carol:
I want to talk about AI for a moment, because I know we served on a panel for APTA's Workforce Summit, talking about AI in the workplace and you moderated that panel so beautifully, but-
Yvonne:
Thank you.
Carol:
... we didn't really hear your perspective. I'm just curious, what's your take or what are you seeing about AI in the transit workforce that you didn't get to say from that moderator's chair?
Yvonne:
I loved moderating that panel. You were fantastic and all of the other panelists were just stellar. They were just stellar. So my perspective, I see AI really as an accelerant, not a replacement for what we do and how we do things. It's going to change how work gets done. There's no doubt about that. And frankly, it is changing it, right?
Carol:
Yeah.
Yvonne:
Because people say the future of AI. No, it's now. The AI is here now, and we encourage in our organization to work smarter, not harder, and utilize it responsibly. That's the important word here. AI will increase the premium on judgment, on leadership and adaptability. That's a key part right there in terms of how we're going to use AI, is to make sure that those three things are in place. Routine tasks may become more automated with AI, but the need for people who can interpret data, make decisions under uncertainty, and lead teams through change, will only increase. That's going to be important as well. For the transit workforce specifically, AI creates an opportunity to rethink how we build capacity in the industry, how we train people, how we deploy talent, and how we support decision making. So all those are critically important as well. The risk is focusing only on the tool. A lot of people focus on the tool itself, and that's a big risk. Because the opportunity with AI is focusing on how we prepare people to work alongside it, not to be replaced by it.
Carol:
Yes. Yes. What about the fear factor? Because I know some people are still maybe keeping their heads in the sand a little bit because they think, which is interesting to me, that I think by touching it, it's going to replace them. I'm not quite sure in this day and age, like you said, AI is here, it's very prevalent, but there still is a little bit of fear around talking about it or bringing it in, or things of that nature. How do you all have that conversation or have you seen that conversation take place in transit?
Yvonne:
No, I think it's important for people to first understand what the tool is and can do. And again, I keep saying again, it's not replacing people. We have to teach people how to work alongside it because it's a great supplementor to creating really exciting outcomes, but you are going to have those and there are those that are fearful that it's going to replace them, that it's going to replace the... You know? All of a sudden we're going to have all of these terminations because of this, this, and that. I think you have to understand how the tool can be used and used responsibly, and there's got to be governance around how you use it, because it can certainly produce some very, very effective outcomes. And again, I go back to the working smarter, not harder. I mean, obviously we're all working hard, but working smarter, utilizing the tool to achieve those best outcomes and not be afraid that it's going to replace someone.
Carol:
Yeah. I think to your early points around making sure there's trust, there's safety, there's clarity, and having the conversation around what AI is, that it's not a replacement, as you've said several times, it's a tool, it's an augmentation, and teaching people how to work alongside it. I think those type of things that you just named are the ways to kind of get over the fear factor so that you can start leveraging it and utilizing it to your greatest advantage.
Yvonne:
Absolutely. Agree, 100%.
Carol:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So my last question is, you've been recognized as I mentioned as COMTO Women Who Move the Nation, a two-time Rosa Parks Diversity Leadership Award recipient, and one of ENO's top women to watch, but recognition is just a snapshot of all the incredible things that you already do. If there's one thing that you would want every leader listening to do differently on Monday morning when it comes to their people, what would you say that is?
Yvonne:
I think I would ask leaders to do one thing. Shift from asking yourself, "Do we have the people we need?" to asking yourself, "Are we creating the conditions for our people to do their best work and be able to grow within our organization?" Because having great talent is not enough. People perform at their best when they have clarity, which we just talked about, they have trust in their leaders, and their leaders trust them to do good work and opportunity where they can grow and they can see future with that firm, with that organization. The leaders who will make the biggest impact are the ones who understand that their role is not just to drive results, but to create the environment where results can happen through their people. And at the end of the day, every strategy is delivered by people. I mean, brass taxes, every strategy is delivered by people.
So the question isn't whether you can afford to invest in your people. The question is whether you can afford not to. And I mean investing your time, your leadership, your mentoring, your coaching, you're developing, your everything. Investing everything in your people, you can't afford not to. Because when you get the right people on the right side, everything else becomes possible. Everything in terms of the outcomes you're seeking becomes possible.
Carol:
Yeah. Wow. Well, that's a mic drop moment.
Yvonne:
Wonderful.
Carol:
You just gave a masterclass on... I mean, this was incredible. And Yvonne, listen, I want to thank you so much for taking the time out of what I know to be a busy schedule, to actually share so much of what you shared today. This was exactly the conversation I hoped it would be. A real look at what it means to lead people forward, not just on a team, but really across an industry, and really thinking about the future of the industry, so that we take our blinders off and just focus on the now, but really look at, are we positioned for what's next? I love that, "Don't look at the people I need now, but are we creating the conditions to really make sure that we're going to have that sustainable workforce that we need in the future?"
Yvonne:
Agreed. 100%>
Carol:
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Yvonne:
You're welcome, it was great to be with you-
Carol:
I appreciate you.
Yvonne:
Yeah, it was great to be with you today. Thank you for the opportunity to share my perspectives and my career and some of the things that really just create passion in me. And that's developing our future leaders. That's where my passion lies.
Carol:
It is obvious. It's obvious. Thank you. And listen, to everyone listening, if this conversation inspired you or triggered a new way to think about leadership, and believe me it should, there are so many nuggets here, you're going to want to listen to this again and again, please share it with another leader that you think could benefit from the wisdom that was shared today. And continue to come find us on the podcast, so that you can hear other guests who are sharing their insights on how to be a better people-forward leader. Until next time, keep leading people-forward, and I'll see you soon.
